Monday, October 31, 2016

A Response: A Oneness Pentecostal Rebuttal To The Trinitarian View


Recently a Oneness doctrine believer sent a rebuttal to me regarding my post that defended the Trinitarian view.  Soon I will reply to it when time allows.  His responses will be in bold and underlined which will be below my post.
The Unitarian "Oneness" doctrine is not one that I believe to be true, or hold to.  This is merely a response to my previous post.  I have not the time to respond to it right now, but will as soon as possible.
(Read my article if you haven't already.  To read my article on the Trinity only click here.)



REFUTING THE “US” IN GEN 1:26



Following is the complete posit taken from a blog. It appears the author is focusing on defending Trinitarianism over Unitarianism. Following the original is a breakdown supporting the Hebraic view using only terms and language afforded by the NKJV of the bible.


Genesis 1:1World English Bible (WEB)

1 In the beginning,
God created the heavens and the earth.

One of the most difficult Bible doctrines to explain is the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up by describing God as being three persons in one. This is a hard thing to understand because how can something be three and one at the same time? From Genesis 1:1 as seen above we read the beginning account of creation. The word “God” that is in bold letters can be explained as the very first mention of what we now call the “Trinity.”

The word “God” in its proper context, and in the Hebrew language, is the word: Elohim. This is actually a compound phrase that means 'singular and plural God (or deity)'.

El=Singular deity (One God)

Him=Plural (More than one)

Elohim

We can take a closer look at this by reading further to verses 26 and 27. These are key verses to the plurality of God.

Genesis 1:26-27 World English Bible (WEB)

26 God said, “Let
us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.

Keeping the previous information in mind, we can see the keywords that are in bold lettering to show emphasis show that God is plural (Let Us, in our image, after our likeness) and singular (God created, in his own, In God's Image, he created, male and female he created.)

There are two different forms of this word Elohim:

As we have just discussed: Deity who is singular and plural.

The royal "we", or majestic plural, is the use of a plural pronoun to refer to a single person holding a high office, such as a sovereign or religious leader.

Some have asserted that given the context of this particular verse would be the royal “We” understanding, which would make sense except that there is no other verse in the Bible where this is exemplified. No other leader in the Bible is referred to in the plural respect which leads us to believe that the context is contrary to that, but rather is the first definition.

The Persons of God

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

All three divine, coexisting, co eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.  They are one God in three persons.

I have heard someone say, "What language is this?" Yet that is what is recorded in the Bible that all three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are  indeed God.

Since the beginning God reveals from the Bible that He is one, and more than one at the same time then He reveals Himself to us throughout His Word.

The Father

Creator of all.  The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.  “The Potter” (Isaiah 64:8)

The Son
Our redeemer.  The express image of the invisible God. (Colossians 1:12-20)

The Holy Spirit
Our Helper, Comforter, and Guide. (John 14:26; John 16:13)

Even in Genesis all three are manifested:
The Father-
Genesis 1:3-29 It says “God said” 10 times. These are references to God the Father, the Creator.

The Son-
Genesis 1:8 “They heard Yahweh God’s voice walking in the garden...” In John 1:1 Jesus is called the “Word” who was from “the beginning” “with God” and “Was God.”

The Holy Spirit-
Genesis 1:2 “The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.”

The three are manifested in
Matthew 3:16-17
16 Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him. 17 Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

Words to know: Singular- One. Plural- More than one. Deity- A god. Elohim- 1. Deity that is singular and plural simultaneously. 2. The royal "we"- or majestic plural, is the use of a plural pronoun to refer to a single person holding a high office, such as a sovereign or religious leader.

Names of God:

Each of the many names of God describes a different aspect of His many-faceted character. Here are some of the better-known names of God in the Bible:

EL, ELOAH: God "mighty, strong, prominent" (Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 139:19) – etymologically, El appears to mean “power,” as in “I have the power to harm you” (Genesis 31:29). El is associated with other qualities, such as integrity (Numbers 23:19), jealousy(Deuteronomy 5:9), and compassion(Nehemiah 9:31), but the root idea of “might” remains.

ELOHIM: God “Creator, Mighty and Strong”(Genesis 17:7; Jeremiah 31:33) – the plural form of Eloah, which accommodates the doctrine of the Trinity. From the Bible’s first sentence, the superlative nature of God’s power is evident as God (Elohim) speaks the world into existence (Genesis 1:1).

EL SHADDAI: “God Almighty,” “The Mighty One of Jacob” (Genesis 49:24; Psalm 132:2,5) – speaks to God’s ultimate power over all.

ADONAI: “Lord” (Genesis 15:2; Judges 6:15) – used in place of YHWH, which was thought by the Jews to be too sacred to be uttered by sinful men. In the Old Testament, YHWH is more often used in God’s dealings with His people, while Adonai is used more when He deals with the Gentiles.

YHWH / YAHWEH / JEHOVAH: “LORD”(Deuteronomy 6:4; Daniel 9:14) – strictly speaking, the only proper name for God. Translated in English Bibles “LORD” (all capitals) to distinguish it from Adonai, “Lord.” The revelation of the name is first given to Moses “I Am who I Am” (Exodus 3:14). This name specifies an immediacy, a presence. Yahweh is present, accessible, near to those who call on Him for deliverance (Psalm 107:13), forgiveness (Psalm 25:11) and guidance (Psalm 31:3).

YAHWEH-JIREH: "The Lord Will Provide"(Genesis 22:14) – the name memorialized by Abraham when God provided the ram to be sacrificed in place of Isaac.

YAHWEH-RAPHA: "The Lord Who Heals"(Exodus 15:26) – “I am Jehovah who heals you” both in body and soul. In body, by preserving from and curing diseases, and in soul, by pardoning iniquities.

YAHWEH-NISSI: "The Lord Our Banner" (Exodus 17:15), where banner is understood to be a rallying place. This name commemorates the desert victory over the Amalekites in Exodus 17.

YAHWEH-M'KADDESH: "The Lord Who Sanctifies, Makes Holy" (Leviticus 20:8; Ezekiel 37:28) – God makes it clear that He alone, not the law, can cleanse His people and make them holy.

YAHWEH-SHALOM: "The Lord Our Peace"(Judges 6:24) – the name given by Gideon to the altar he built after the Angel of the Lord assured him he would not die as he thought he would after seeing Him.

YAHWEH-TSIDKENU: "The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jeremiah 33:16) – As with YHWH-M’Kaddesh, it is God alone who provides righteousness to man, ultimately in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, who became sin for us “that we might become the Righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

YAHWEH-ROHI: "The Lord Our Shepherd"(Psalm 23:1) – After David pondered his relationship as a shepherd to his sheep, he realized that was exactly the relationship God had with him, and so he declares, “Yahweh-Rohi is my Shepherd. I shall not want” (Psalm 23:1).

YAHWEH-SHAMMAH: "The Lord Is There”(Ezekiel 48:35) – the name ascribed to Jerusalem and the Temple there, indicating that the once-departed glory of the Lord(Ezekiel 8:11) had returned (Ezekiel 44:1-4).

YAHWEH-SABAOTH: "The Lord of Hosts"(Isaiah 1:24; Psalm 46:7) – Hosts means “hordes,” both of angels and of men. He is Lord of the host of heaven and of the inhabitants of the earth, of Jews and Gentiles, of rich and poor, master and slave. The name is expressive of the majesty, power, and authority of God and shows that He is able to accomplish what He determines to do.

EL ELYON: “Most High" (Deuteronomy 26:19) – derived from the Hebrew root for “go up” or “ascend,” so the implication is of that which is the very highest. El Elyon denotes exaltation and speaks of absolute right to lordship.

EL ROI: "God of Seeing" (Genesis 16:13) – the name ascribed to God by Hagar, alone and desperate in the wilderness after being driven out by Sarah (Genesis 16:1-14). When Hagar met the Angel of the Lord, she realized she had seen God Himself in a theophany. She also realized that El Roi saw her in her distress and testified that He is a God who lives and sees all.

EL-OLAM: "Everlasting God" (Psalm 90:1-3) – God’s nature is without beginning or end, free from all constraints of time, and He contains within Himself the very cause of time itself. “From everlasting to everlasting, You are God.”

EL-GIBHOR: “Mighty God” (Isaiah 9:6) – the name describing the Messiah, Christ Jesus, in this prophetic portion of Isaiah. As a powerful and mighty warrior, the Messiah, the Mighty God, will accomplish the destruction of God’s enemies and rule with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:15).

http://www.gotquestions.org/names-of-God.html

Oneness Rebuttal

FOLLOWING IS THE ANNOTATED TEXT SHOWING POINTS OF REBUTTAL INSERTED IN THE INDENTED PARAGRAPH.
One of the most difficult Bible doctrines to explain is the doctrine of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up by describing God as being three persons in one.
From a purely human perspective the author correctly assumes a difficulty in correctly making a rendering of the trinity dogma. This is very obvious in that the post-apostolic debate about how to view God was the common theme for over 400 years of councils and creeds. To then distill this lengthy debate to one page in a blog is miracle in itself.
This is a hard thing to understand because how can something be three and one at the same time? From Genesis 1:1 as seen above we read the beginning account of creation..”
Here we have an admission that the Trinitarians do claim “three things”; to quote the author; “How can something…”. How quickly we could breeze over and miss the word “something”. If we are to accurately state the Trinitarian premise it should say how can “three things be three and one at the same time”
The word “God” that is in bold letters can be explained as the very first mention of what we now call the “Trinity.
It is true that the word trinity is commonly used in our current culture yet the word trinity was not used for 4100 years of writing about God. The actual scripture is void of any word intimating three of any being, person, power or deity.
The word “God” in its proper context, and in the Hebrew language, is the word: Elohim. This is actually a compound phrase that means 'singular and plural God (or deity)'.Elohim: El=Singular deity (One God) Him=Plural (More than one) (NOTE: this writer changed the order of words)

This is a valid definition of Elohim but how are we sure this looks ahead to what the contemporary apology of Trinitarianism is?


We can take a closer look at this by reading further to verses 26 and 27. These are key verses to the plurality of God. Genesis 1:26-27 World English Bible (WEB) 26 God said, “Let
us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the sky, and over the livestock, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in his own image. In God’s image he created him; male and female he created them.
Much could be said in an exegesis of this passage. To say this validates the commonly accepted Trinitarian lexicon is quite a stretch. It is clear that there is plurality of facets or works of God but there is no proof of persons, beings, essences or equalities in this passage.

Keeping the previous information in mind, we can see the keywords that are in bold lettering to show emphasis show that God is plural (Let Us, in our image, after our likeness) and singular (God created, in his own, In God's Image, he created, male and female he created.) There are two different forms of this word Elohim:

As we have just discussed: Deity who is singular and plural.

The royal "we", or majestic plural, is the use of a plural pronoun to refer to a single person holding a high office, such as a sovereign or religious leader.

Some have asserted that given the context of this particular verse would be the royal “We” understanding, which would make sense except that there is no other verse in the Bible where this is exemplified. No other leader in the Bible is referred to in the plural respect which leads us to believe that the context is contrary to that, but rather is the first definition.

The Persons of God

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  
No other leader in Bible has been referred to in both the EL and HIM because no other leader is called sovereign, eternal, invisible, the Alpha and Omega (and many more awesome descriptions). So to remain true to the Hebrew rendition of God we then cannot assume the concept of “persons of God”. This is a posit that has yet to solidly defended.



All three divine, coexisting, co eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent.  They are one God in three persons.  
This is the reliance on post-apostolic apologies.

I have heard someone say, "What language is this?" Yet that is what is recorded in the Bible that all three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are indeed God.
Now the repetitive use of a theory seems to make the theory a proven fact. To continue the apology for trinity on the theory that there are multiple persons seems to make the ensuing debate a bit futile.
Since the beginning God reveals from the Bible that He is one, and more than one at the same time then He reveals Himself to us throughout His Word.
A good way to view the concept of Father and Son is to use John 1:1 but it is important to see John’s use of the Greek concept “logos” which is not intended to be a being or person or even a thing. Logos in the Greek mind is an act of the will, an idea or purpose. In this context then WORD is not the literal son but it is the foreordained Son as Peter tells us. (1 Peter) 1: 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God. NKJV



The Father: Creator of all.  The Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.  “The Potter” (Isaiah 64:8)

The Son
Our redeemer.  The express image of the invisible God. (Colossians 1:12-20)

The Holy Spirit
Our Helper, Comforter, and Guide. (John 14:26; John 16:13)
No problem with the above lines as the stand isolated. Very good renditions of how the bible describes the things God does and uses the proper names for these things.


Even in Genesis all three are manifested:
The Father-
Genesis 1:3-29 It says “God said” 10 times. These are references to God the Father, the Creator.

The Son-
Genesis 1:8 “They heard Yahweh God’s voice walking in the garden...” In John 1:1 Jesus is called the “Word” who was from “the beginning” “with God” and “Was God.”

The Holy Spirit-
Genesis 1:2 “The earth was formless and empty. Darkness was on the surface of the deep and God’s Spirit was hovering over the surface of the waters.”

The three are manifested in
Matthew 3:16-17
16 Jesus, when he was baptized, went up directly from the water: and behold, the heavens were opened to him. He saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming on him. 17 Behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
Here is where the most common diversion from the Hebrew context takes place. Once the theory of “a being called the son” and “a being called the holy ghost” and another called “the father” takes root the theory can be leapfrogged into a fact. If we would stick with the Hebraic assertion that there is only one entity in heaven and that One is a Spirit, is invisible, is eternal, is sovereign then we get a completely different view of the above passages. For instance in Matt 3:16 we do not see three manifested; only one is manifested and since a manifestation requires visibility only Jesus can be that manifestation or God incarnate.


Words to know: Singular- One. Plural- More than one. Deity- A god. Elohim- 1. Deity that is singular and plural simultaneously. 2. The royal "we"- or majestic plural, is the use of a plural pronoun to refer to a single person holding a high office, such as a sovereign or religious leader.


In the rebuttal summary then we have the same truth of the definition of El and Him but we see the multiple HIM as the many works and powers that God bestows on His most beloved of all creation; Mankind.

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